This war might be about oil after all......

[jumper69]

That's cool. I'm not asking anyone to build bomb shelters, hoard food and water, or cover their windows with blankets....the end is not tomorrow.

I'm simply trying to point out that the difference between getting cancer and running out of cheap oil is that one of them is a sure thing. You figure it out.

It WILL have to be dealt with eventually. By us...probably not. By our kids. Most certainly.

<font color="#000002" size="1">[ March 19, 2004 11:16 AM: Message edited by: Jumper69 ]</font>

[Emperor Napoleon]

"The object, slightly larger than one that flattened a vast expanse of Siberia in 1908, was one of the 10 closest known asteroids to approach Earth, astronomers said."

The scientific jury is still out on that statement too. There was no impact crater, it was as if something detonated above the ground (like a nuclear device) and no fragments have ever been found of the Tunguska "meteorite" to substantiate it was in fact a meteor. Oddly enough, the trees were flattened the same way later nuclear explosions happened too. And villagers who survived it experienced the same side effects the survivors of Hiroshima and Nagasaki suffered 1/2 century later. So what was it?

[Emperor Napoleon]

I don't even buy the theory that present oil deposits are from fossil remains. When you consider the size of oil deposits, areas deep under the earth the size of Lake Erie, some larger some smaller, how could simply the bodies of dinosaurs have created such a substance? I think it was something scientists came up with and it has never been challenged. How is it oil fields believed bone dry have a way of replenishing themselves over time and can be pumped again without explanation? I think oil is a natural forming substance in the earth that will continue to develop. Granted, the more of it is extracetd the more costly it becomes and the demand may make short term shortages. But there are natural gas pockets, coal pockets yet to be exploited. Why? too much money to be made in oil. What about solar power? I know here in Florida we could if need be run everything we need on it considering the amount of sunshine we receive on a yearly basis. Progress Energy wouldn't make as much money though so it isn't developed. If, and I do not believe we will, but IF we ever run out of oil. We will find alternate means and as quickly as needed. A new way to make a profit and it will happen.

<font color="#000002" size="1">[ March 19, 2004 11:25 AM: Message edited by: G L ]</font>

[jumper69]

I don't even buy the theory that present oil deposits are from fossil remains. When you consider the size of oil deposits, areas deep under the earth the size of Lake Erie, some larger some smaller, how could simply the bodies of dinosaurs have created such a substance? I think it was something scientists came up with and it has never been challenged. How is it oil fields believed bone dry have a way of replenishing themselves over time and can be pumped again without explanation? I think oil is a natural forming substance in the earth that will continue to develop. Granted, the more of it is extracetd the more costly it becomes and the demand may make short term shortages. But there are natural gas pockets, coal pockets yet to be exploited. Why? too much money to be made in oil. What about solar power? I know here in Florida we could if need be run everything we need on it considering the amount of sunshine we receive on a yearly basis. Progress Energy wouldn't make as much money though so it isn't developed. If, and I do not believe we will, but IF we ever run out of oil. We will find alternate means and as quickly as needed. A new way to make a profit and it will happen.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I'm speechless...

"Something that scientists came up with..." [img]confused.gif[/img]

But let's look at natural gas:

Natural Gas currently supplies 20% of global energy supply. It is not a sufficient replacement for fossil fuels for the following reasons:

1. Gas itself will start running out from 2020 on. Demand for natural gas in North America is already outstripping supply, especially as power utilities take the remaining gas to generate electricity.

2. Gas is not suited for existing jet aircraft, ships, vehicles, and equipment for agriculture and other products.

3. Conversion consumes large amounts of energy as well as money.

4. Natural gas also does not provide the huge array of chemical by-products that we depend on oil

SOLAR Power

Solar power currently supplies .006% of global energy supply. As a replacement for fossil fuels, it suffers from several deficiencies:

1. Energy from solar power varies constantly with weather or day/night.

2. Not practical for transportation needs. While a handful of small, experimental, solar powered vehicles have been built, solar power is unsuited for planes, boats, cars, tanks, etc. . .

3. Solar cannot be adapted to produce pesticides, fertilizer, or plastics.

4. Solar is susceptible to the effects of global climate change.

Shall I go on... [img]graemlins/whatever.gif[/img]

[Emperor Napoleon]

Back in the 19th century when oil was first ascertained by the scientific community to be of fossil origins the same group of men thought bleeding patients was a cure all and had no concept of hygiene. But their theory on fossil fuels should remain unchallenged? Yeah, there were so many dinosaurs killed at one time that their bodies were able to be covered under thousands of feet of earth in order for them to form lakes of oil for us to extract millions of years later. Makes sense. After all it IS what they said happened... [img]graemlins/sure.gif[/img]

[jumper69]

Then give me an alternative theory. If you think the fossil fuel theory is flawed then challenge it. But unlike the fossil fuel theory, leeching, and hygine have been discounted and improved respectively.

This isn't about whether dinosaurs made oil GL, It's about oil being finite and eventually becoming scarce.

My whole purpose of this thread was to pose the question what will happen. It's not an if. It's a when.

[Lew]

Don't forget about nukes. I read a great book "Cult of the Atom" that basically traced the development of the nuclear power industry from the 1930s through the early 80s. And it's a pretty devastating book in that it shows how we may have been heading for disaster had not Browns Ferry and (later) Three Mile Island not occurred. The bottom line is that, during that time, we had the wrong people (i.e. politicians) fooling with things they didn't quite understand.

But, we have come a long way since then. And I'm not one to say that just because something didn't work in the past, we shouldn't try it again. With all the trial and error we have on the table, plus new understanding about things, I don;t see why a legitimate nuclear program cannot exist in this country in the future. Again, I'm all for safeguards, checks & balances, etc. But I think it can be done. And if we are gonna run out of oil, we clearly have to do something.

[Raven Soul]

Screw Oil! Make Love!

[Emperor Napoleon]

I know that. Hence my position I do not think natural oil is as finite as we are told and I do not believe in the commonly accepted origins of "fossil fuel". I think natural oil is a naturally forming substance within the earth and fossils have nothing to do with it. Coal on the other hand does make sense as having formed from ancient forests. Coal fields are not nearly as deep and large as the kind of natural oil fields being pumped from the middle east and Texas and elsewhere. And considering the sheer size of natural oil deposits, even all the pumping that has already been done and will continue to be done is like trying to pump Lake Superior or Lake Erie dry barrel after barrel. How many hundreds or thousands of years would it take? We just are not as powerful as we like to think we are as far as depleting the oil reserves under ground, it isn't within our ability to pump them all dry in 100 years. No way, no how. Sweep back the tide with a broom too while we're at it....

[MIPS]

AFTER READING ALL THESE COMMENTS I CAN SEE JUMPER YOU ARE GOING TO BE VOTING FOR JOHN KERRY! BUSH IS AN OIL GRASPING WARMONGER. JOHN KERRY WILL TAKE US BACK TO GOOD VALUES, FOREIGN LEADERS ALREADY ARE KNOWING THIS.